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特朗普与《纽约时报》会谈纪要

Donald Trump Seems to Retreat on Some Promises
特朗普与《纽约时报》会谈纪要

President-elect Donald J. Trump on Tuesday tempered some of his most extreme campaign promises, dropping his vow to jail Hillary Clinton, expressing doubt about the value of torturing terrorism suspects and pledging to have an open mind about climate change.

周二,候任总统唐纳德·J·特朗普(Donald J. Trump)在竞选期间一些最极端的承诺上缓和了语气。他放弃了要把希拉里·克林顿(Hillary Clinton)关进监狱的誓言,对严刑拷打恐怖主义嫌疑人的必要性表示质疑,并承诺在气候变化问题上持开放心态。

But in a wide-ranging, hourlong interview with reporters and editors at The New York Times — which was scheduled, canceled and then reinstated after a dispute over the ground rules — Mr. Trump was fiercely unapologetic about repeatedly flouting the traditional ethical and political conventions that have long shaped the American presidency.

但在接受《纽约时报》记者和编辑采访期间,特朗普对其多次公然藐视传统的道德和政治惯例毫无悔意。长期以来,正是那些惯例塑造了美国总统这一角色。采访历时一个小时,涉及话题广泛。由于在基本原则上的分歧,这次采访经历了约定、取消然后又恢复进行的曲折。

He said he had no obligation to establish boundaries between his business empire and his White House, conceding that the Trump brand “is certainly a hotter brand than it was before.” He defended Stephen K. Bannon, his chief strategist, against charges of racism, calling him a “decent guy.” And he savaged Republicans who had failed to support him in his unorthodox White House bid.

他声称自己没义务在他的商业帝国和他领导的白宫之间划清界限,承认特朗普这个品牌“当然比以前更火了”。他为自己的首席策略师史蒂芬·K·班农(Stephen K. Bannon)面临的种族主义指控进行辩解,称他是一个“正派人”。他还炮轰那些在他以非正统的方式竞逐白宫期间没有支持他的共和党人。

The interview demonstrated Mr. Trump’s apparent eagerness to please his audience and his tendency to speak in generalities, even as he was pressed to elaborate on policy positions that propelled him to a convincing and surprising victory over Mrs. Clinton two weeks ago.

此次采访表明,尽管面临着详细阐述自己的政策立场的压力,特朗普似乎仍迫切地想要取悦自己的受众,并倾向于泛泛而谈。两周前,正是那些政策立场促使他在与克林顿的对决中取得了一场令人信服却又出人意料的胜利。

After stoking cries of “Lock her up!” at campaign rallies by vowing to prosecute Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Trump expressed empathy toward his former rival. He said he has no interest in pressing for Mrs. Clinton’s prosecution over her use of a private email server or for financial acts committed by the Clinton Foundation.

曾在竞选集会上发誓要追究克林顿的法律责任,并引得人群高喊“把她关起来!”的特朗普,对他曾经的竞争对手表示理解。他自称不会坚持就克林顿使用私人电子邮件服务器或克林顿基金会(Clinton Foundation)的财务问题对她发起指控。

“I want to move forward,” he said. “I don’t want to move back. I don’t want to hurt the Clintons, I really don’t.”

“我想前进,”他说。“我不想后退。我不想伤害克林顿一家,真的不想。”

The president-elect’s turnabout on the need for torture as a tool in the fight against terrorism, which he repeatedly endorsed during the campaign, was remarkable. Mr. Trump suggested he has changed his mind about the usefulness of waterboarding and other forms of torture after talking with James N. Mattis, a retired Marine Corps general, who headed the United States Central Command.<纽约时报中英文网 http://www.qqenglish.com/>

在竞选期间,他多次强调在打击恐怖主义的过程中有必要将刑讯作为一种手段。身为候任总统的特朗普在这个问题上的转变令人惊讶。他自称在和曾领导美军中央司令部(United States Central Command)的退役海军陆战队上将詹姆斯·N·马蒂斯(James N. Mattis)交流过后,他改变了对水刑和其他形式的酷刑是否有用的看法。

“He said, ‘I’ve never found it to be useful,’” Mr. Trump said, describing the general’s view of torturing terrorism suspects. He added that Mr. Mattis found more value in building trust and rewarding cooperation with terror suspects: “‘Give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and I’ll do better.’” He added: “I was very impressed by that answer.’’

“他说,‘我从没发现这么做有用过,’”特朗普说的是马蒂斯对拷打恐怖主义嫌疑人的看法。他接着表示,马蒂斯认为建立信任并对嫌疑人的配合给予奖励更有用:“‘给我一包烟和几瓶啤酒,我会做得更好。’”他还说:“这个回答给我的印象非常深刻。”

Torture, Mr. Trump said, is “not going to make the kind of a difference that a lot of people are thinking.”

特朗普称,刑讯“不会带来很多人以为的那种不同”。

Mr. Trump repeated that Mr. Mattis was being “seriously, seriously considered” to be secretary of defense. “I think it’s time, maybe, for a general,” he said.

特朗普多次提到正在“非常认真地考虑”任命马蒂斯为国防部长。“我觉得或许该选一名将军了,”他说。

On climate change, he refused to repeat his promise to abandon the international climate accord reached last year in Paris, saying that, “I’m looking at it very closely.” But he said “I have an open mind to it” and that clean air and “crystal clear water” were vitally important.

在气候变化问题上,他拒绝重提此前的承诺,即放弃去年在巴黎达成的国际气候协议,他说“我正在非常仔细地研究它”。但他表示“我对它持开放心态”,并称干净的空气和“晶莹剔透的水”极其重要。

He held out assurances that he did not intend to embrace extremist positions in some areas. He vigorously denounced a white nationalist conference in Washington over the weekend where attendees gave the Nazi salute, criticized Jews and spoke some words in German.

他保证自己不打算在一些领域采取极端主义立场。他严厉谴责周末在华盛顿举行的一场白人民族主义会议。出席该会议的人行纳粹礼、抨击犹太人并说了一些德语词。

Asked about his antagonism with the news media and his vow to rethink libel laws, he told the group, which included The Times’s publisher, Arthur O. Sulzberger Jr., and other executives: “I think you’ll be happy.”

纽约时报中英文网 http://www.qqenglish.com/

被问及对新闻媒体的敌意和重新考虑诽谤法的誓言时,他对包括时报出版人小阿瑟·奥克斯·苏兹伯格(Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.)和其他高管在内的采访团队表示:“我想你们会满意的。”

But pressed to respond to criticism in other areas, he was defiant. He declared that “the law’s totally on my side” when it comes to questions about conflict of interest and ethics laws. “The president can’t have a conflict of interest.”

但在受到逼问,被要求回应其他领域的批评时,特朗普态度强硬。提到利益冲突和伦理法时,他宣称“法律完全站在我这一边”。“总统不可能存在利益冲突。”

He said it would be extremely difficult to sell off his businesses because they are real estate holdings. He said that he would “like to do something” to address ethics concerns, and he noted that he had turned over the management of the businesses to his children.

他表示,抛售自己名下的企业会极为困难,因为它们都是房地产。他说他“愿意做点什么”来应对这些伦理上的担忧。他还指出已将相关企业的管理移交给了子女。

But he insisted that he could still have business partners into the White House for grin-and-grab photographs. He said that critics were pressuring him to go beyond what he was willing to do, including distancing himself from his children while they run his businesses.

但他坚称自己仍可以让生意伙伴进入白宫,和他们摆姿势拍拍照片。他说批评人士是在逼他做他不愿意的事情,包括在子女管理他的企业期间和他们保持距离。

“If it were up to some people,” he said, “I would never, ever see my daughter Ivanka again.”

“如果让有些人来决定的话,”他说,“我这辈子都别想见我女儿伊万卡了。”

Mr. Trump rejected the idea that he was bound by federal anti-nepotism laws against installing his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, in a White House job. But he said he would want to avoid the appearance of a conflict and might instead seek to make him a special envoy charged with brokering peace in the Middle East.

特朗普驳斥了他受联邦反裙带关系法的约束,不能安排女婿贾里德·库什纳(Jared Kushner)在白宫任职的说法。但他表示希望避免出现看似存在冲突的情况,可能会转而争取让他担任特使,负责促成中东地区的和平。

“The president of the United States is allowed to have whatever conflicts he or she wants, but I don’t want to do that,” Mr. Trump said. But he said that Mr. Kushner, who is an observant Jew, “could be very helpful” in reconciling the longstanding dispute between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

“只要他或她愿意,美国总统什么样的冲突都可以有,但我不想这么做,”特朗普说。但他说库什纳是一个善于观察的犹太人,在化解以色列和巴勒斯坦由来已久的争端一事上“也许能帮上大忙”。

“I would love to be able to be the one that made peace with Israel and the Palestinians,” Mr. Trump said, adding that Mr. Kushner “would be very good at it” and that “he knows the region.”

“我很希望能够成为那个让以色列和巴勒斯坦讲和的人,”特朗普说,并接着表示库什纳“非常擅长这方面”并且“他了解该地区”。

“A lot of people tell me, really great people tell me that it’s impossible — you can’t do it,” Mr. Trump added. “I disagree; I think you can make peace.”

“很多人对我说,真的很了不起的人对我说,那是不可能的,你做不到,”特朗普继续说。“我不这么认为,我觉得你是可以实现和平的。”

“I have reason to believe I can do it,” he added.

“我有理由相信自己能做到,”他接着说。

Mr. Trump made a forceful defense of Mr. Bannon, who he named to become his chief strategist and who has drawn charges of racism and anti-Semitism. He said Mr. Bannon had been dismayed at the reaction to his hiring.

特朗普为班农进行了有力的辩护。后者被他任命为首席策略师,面临着种族主义和反犹指控。他说外界对这项任命的反应让班农感到诧异。

“I’ve known Steve Bannon a long time. If I thought he was a racist or alt-right,” he said, “I wouldn’t even think about hiring him.”

“我认识史蒂夫·班农很长时间了。如果认为他是种族主义者或另类右翼分子,”他说,“我压根不会考虑用他。”

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